Do Infants Go to Heaven when they die?

[muleslax]

So, In abortions some babies would go to hell if they died? And are abortions wrong?

[Calvins_Kid]

Muse: Yes abortion is wrong - it is murder of a human being

Bro Paul: I agree with everything you said there brother... And you have given me much to think over...

[muleslax]

I can't believe abortions are legal.

[Paul A. Kaiser]

Nov 8, 2008 11:53:21 GMT -5 muleslax said:

So, In abortions some babies would go to hell if they died? And are abortions wrong?

Abortion is very wrong! But that is just my point why wouldn't a Christian support abortion if it fills the kingdom and by default a child would automatically be ushered into the Kingdom? Why allow a child into this world of sin and death only to end up on the broad road to destruction?

Now in regards to do infants that die do they go to hell? My answer would be yes some if not most do. That is a hard saying but if we are to be consistent with the Word of God we must do our best to understand it.

This we do know:

1) The wages of sin is death. Man is born in sin.
2) Infants die in infantsy, they receive the wages of sinners.

Anything outside of that is "speculative theology" and we cannot build doctrines around speculation though many have: i.e. age of accountability, God has a "Plan B" for the redemption of children, God overlooks original sin in infants, etc.

To be dogmatic about those issues is to go outside of Scripture and you must admit this is the case.

Randy Alcorn in this article does a great job of saying just that.

So, bottom line, I believe that babies who die go to heaven. But even as I say that, I realize it's a big stretch and I cannot prove it scripturally

I just don't go as far as him... Scripture has more weight to show that not all infants go to heaven.

Any thoughts?

[muleslax]

I read that article you've posted; but what about Mathew 19:14, wouldn't that mean all little children go to Heaven?

[Daniel Yeager]

I think there is one thing that can be said about this subject ... and that is that the Bible does not say much about it! So, an important point here, as with any doctrine, is that since the Scripture does not give us much information on this subject, we must not act as if it does. We must not make conclusions that Scripture itself does not make.

The Westminster Confession of Faith has this to say on the subject and is careful to observe this limitation (of not going beyond Scripture):

WCF 10:3 Elect infants, dying in infancy, are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit, who worketh when, and where, and how He pleaseth.

Notice the confession makes no attempt to place a number on elect infants; it merely states that if[/b] the infant is elect it will be saved. The Bible unequivocally says that all human beings are sinners from conception. So, the best we can say is that some infants dying in infancy are elect, but not all. Those who want to say all babies dying in infancy are elect are responding sentimentally or emotionally.

There are some Scriptures that are worth looking at that seem to imply the state of some infants or children, but admittedly cannot be relied upon emphatically to say that all, or even some are elect.

2 Samuel 12:23 "But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me."

Here we David expressing himself in such a way as to imply that infants dying in infancy may be saved.

Luke 18:15-16 And they were bringing even their babies to Him so that He would touch them, but when the disciples saw it, they began rebuking them. 16 But Jesus called for them, saying, "Permit the children to come to Me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.

Again, can we glean anything definite about the state of all infants or any specific infant? Certainly not. But, it does seem to suggest that little children or infants are members of the Kingdom of Heaven.

[Daniel Yeager]

Nov 11, 2008 10:35:57 GMT -5 Paul A. Kaiser said:

Abortion is very wrong! But that is just my point why wouldn't a Christian support abortion if it fills the kingdom and by default a child would automatically be ushered into the Kingdom? Why allow a child into this world of sin and death only to end up on the broad road to destruction?

I have often thought about this angle and it just doesn't hold water. Let's just suppose for a moment that all infants dying in infancy did go to heaven. A Christian still could not support abortion, because there is still a thou shalt not murder mandate on the books.

[j3frea]

I too have been wrestling with this topic for a great deal of time.

I would agree with much of what Paul A. Kaiser wrote at the conclusion of the first page, I think it is an interesting thought that were babies innocent, they would not be mortal (since the wages of sin is death)...

Nevertheless, I think that it is unlikely that all babies go to hell based on my knowledge of the character and nature of God. However, taking scripture at face value, I would have to begin by saying infants who die before they reach the level of accountability must see justice and justice for their inherited and imputed sinfulness is d**nation.

(May I suggest a change in terminology from "age of accountability" to "level of accountability" to solve the problem of the variation in age of accountability per person)

I do believe that there is an level of accountability for every person in that, this debate is only with regards to those infants who have not yet reached it.

As Daniel Yeager quoted earlier

2 Samuel 12:23 "But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me."

I believe that this verse implies a potential for infant salvation. The view that this verse simply means that David will die as well is flawed in that David stopped fasting and praying after his son died and instead went and ate something. People around him expected him to mourn and this was his response to them (if memory serves).

The question posed then is, by what means could an infant be saved.
The first copout is "the elected ones are saved...". I'm sorry if I offend anyone by calling that a copout but once again, as Daniel Yeager first quoted

WCF 10:3 Elect infants, dying in infancy, are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit, who worketh when, and where, and how He pleaseth.

This does not present a solution, the means of salvation is still repentant faith.

So my position at this stage is: Babies who die before the level of accountability go to hell, however, God may have elected to save some by a means that I cannot comprehend.

I think that this is probably a bit of eisegesis but the closest solution that I have come to is:

Exodus 20:5-6
...for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

The word "lovingkindness" can also be translated mercy and, though I am not certain but to the best of my knowledge, "... lovingkindness to a thousand generations ..." is implied in the text. This may suggest some sort of mercy for infants based on the salvation of the parents - like I said, "this is probably a bit of eisegesis" but hey, if creflo dollar can think we're gods then I reckon this wouldn't make me a complete heretic...
This is not repentant faith though and so I am not convinced of this.

[j3frea]

I have to try to bump this thread because I wouldn't want the last comment to be mine and have such a poor conclusion.

I will say that I have since come to understand John Piper's position on the issue a bit better recently. He argues that since Romans 1:20 says "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse."

If a child dies before his/her level of accountability is reached then s/he does have an excuse.

My response to this, however, would be that pleading ignorance does not result in a judgement of innocence

[Paul A. Kaiser]

My response to this, however, would be that pleading ignorance does not result in a judgement of innocence

Exactly.... As a matter of fact, it would fly in the face of the doctrine of original sin.

[j3frea]

Okay, I have had further thoughts on the subject. I should add that pretty much all of the shoulders that we Calvinists stand on believed in Baby salvation.

Curt Daniel explained it in this way; God takes the first step in Salvation normally right? Yes; He regenerates a person.
Therefore, God could choose to regenerate an infant could He not?

But "It is by grace you have been saved through faith". However, "that not of yourselves" - neither the grace or the faith were ours; they are gifts from God.

Oh well, I suppose I'll be wrestling with this for some time

[Paul A. Kaiser]

Jan 18, 2009 16:21:04 GMT -5 j3frea said:

Okay, I have had further thoughts on the subject. I should add that pretty much all of the shoulders that we Calvinists stand on believed in Baby salvation.

Curt Daniel explained it in this way; God takes the first step in Salvation normally right? Yes; He regenerates a person.
Therefore, God could choose to regenerate an infant could He not?

But "It is by grace you have been saved through faith". However, "that not of yourselves" - neither the grace or the faith were ours; they are gifts from God.

Oh well, I suppose I'll be wrestling with this for some time

Ahhh...

You have stumbled across the little delima of Original sin and knowing that there is no age of accountability. Most would say if you hold to this then logically all infants who die are...

1) Sinners evidenced by their death.
2) Go to hell because they have not repoented and believed.

The comments by curt daniel and many others are well noted. And as you have indicated many great fathers of the faith held to infant salvation, but this still begs the question.

Where in Scripture is this positions supported?

Great thought and insight j3frea!

Still looking forward to seeing this thread develop further....

[drakim]

From my years of debating with Christians, I've heard many diffrent arguments for the salvation of infants (or the lack thereof).

One very good argument, as Paul presented, is that the whole reason that humans die is because of sin. If infants weren't sinners, they wouldn't be able to die.

However, there are arguments for the other side, mostly pointing to scriptures talking about children, such as:

1 John 2:12
www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20John%202:12%20;&version=9;

Another argument I've heard is that all babies have actually accepted Jesus. Knowing the creator of the universe is sort of the "default position" until the child gets biased by The World and it's diffrent ways.